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November 20, 2008, 04:28:36 PM
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The Whiz  |  User Blogs  |  Have a problem? No Problem!!!  |  Chad Johnson... « previous next »
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psychocat
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2008, 10:58:19 AM »
Quote from: RUN HARD on March 24, 2008, 09:01:39 AM
Moss has not been as consistent....had off years in OAK.  CJ is always TOP 10!!!   I'll have to pull TO stats later

Ocho Ciinco would have had off years in Oakland too. Hell, Jerry Rice in his prime would have had off years in Oakland.

This is another problem with this sort of debate...a lot of the consistency and productivity of WRs can be traced not only to their own talnet, but to that of the QBs they have throwing them the ball. Look at it this way: had Moss had Carson Palmer throwing to him for those two years, would his numbers have been as good as CJ's? I'd say undoubtedly. Conversly, if Johnson had to put up with the Clowns Du Jour that Moss had to in those years, what would his numbers have looked like?

To me, the fact that Moss managed to put up more than 1,500 yds and 11 TDs over those two seasons...including 1,005 and 8 in 2005...is a true testament to his ability. He averaged more than 13 yds a catch and had three TD receptions for a team whose QBs only threw 7 THE WHOLE DAMN SEASON!

So personally, I'd say that although his STATS may not show it (remember that old line about three types of lies? Lies, damn lies and statistics), he's still been consistent. A receiver needs a QB or he's toast.
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RUN HARD
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2008, 12:24:38 PM »
Terrel Owens has been very good past 5 yrs....but had a ranking of 12th in 2003 and 32nd in 05.  Again....Chad Johnson all 5 yrs TOP 10.


Randy Moss rankings 2004 19th, 2005 15th, 2006 59th.


Still nobody more consistent than CJ.......UNDERACHIEVER....Huh
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psychocat
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2008, 02:24:25 PM »
I'm curious as to where you're getting these rankings, and what the criteria are. Number of catches? Receiving yardage? TDs? What sort of consistency are you talking about?

As I said, don't get me wrong, I think he's a great receiver, one of the top ones in the game right now. But I DON'T think he's all that and a bag of fries, especially when it comes to getting into the end zone. As for consistency, it not only goes from season to season, but within each season as well, It's real possible to put up gaudy numbers and do it with three or four good games. Case in point: CJ's numbers from 2006 that I mentioned before. He had a total of 1440 receiving yards, but 450 of them came in two games.
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RUN HARD
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 09:56:06 PM »
The rankings were from FBG's end of year rankings based on fantasy points
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RUN HARD
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2008, 08:48:25 PM »
We, the OCHO CINCO crew Rest our case!!!
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big_dobber
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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2008, 12:23:29 PM »
Quote from: RUN HARD on April 10, 2008, 08:48:25 PM
We, the OCHO CINCO crew Rest our case!!!

Missing the point COMPLETELY.  I won't try to drag this out, because Psychocat has tried to explain it to you and you can't seem to understand. 

I agree with PC, and I own 85 in a league.  I don't respect guys that make themselves out to be larger then the game.  Not only that, but then don't back it up on the field.  85 is a lot of hype and big game, but no consistency.  RUNHARD will say that he's a top wr consistently, which is in fact true. 

Chad Johnson                                                       
10 or less    4 games
10.01-20     7 games
20.01-30     3 games
40 +            2 games

Now look at it this way.

Weeks 1 -3, he had 87.4 points           29.13 ave
4 - 11 (bye week was the 5th), he had 83.2 points    11.9 ave
week 12, 40.3 points                40.3 ave
weeks 13 - 16, 46.80 points        11.7 ave
week 17, 30 points                      Most of the leagues that I'm in, week 17 doesn't count.

This is not what I call the perfect picture of consistency.    For every game 85 can give an easy victory, he can make it very difficult for you win. 

I do realize that other WR's has some inconsistency (TO comes to mind last year with 4 games w/under 10 points) but 85 talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. 

Through this in to, he is destroying the chemistry of the Bengals.  The Bengals were supposed to be THE TEAM a few years back, and that's when ocho cinco got the big head and decided that he was bigger then the NFL.   He has to have some monster celebration when, or should I say if due to only have 4 games last year with a td, he scores a TD.   


Statistically, he has been a top wr for the past 5 years, but he doesn't show up consistently, week in and week out, on the field.  Does that mean that he underperforms?  from a stats point of view, no.  From a win/loss point of view, yes. 

 
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Overall record for 2008:  34-16   1st place in all divisions.
3 Amigos Dynasty  6-4, Badlands 3 Dynasty 7-3, Domination 6-4, EoXDL 8-2, Shark Alley 7-3.
RUN HARD
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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2008, 03:06:15 PM »
ohh we understand

You can play with the numbers all you like...BOTTOM LINE CJ will be a TOP WR by the end of the year!!!

I think WR is a position that is ALWAYS violatile week to week.   Every WR has off weeks.
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psychocat
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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2008, 04:36:40 PM »
I think the real problem here is that we look at consistency two different ways. You look at it over the space of a season, and say "well, his overall numbers this year were about the same as they were last year, so he's consistent."

I tend to look for consistency within the season, and I'm not real fond of guys who have 1400 yd, 6 TD seasons...but get about half the yardagage and all of the TDs in four out of the 16 weeks.

Dobber talked about CJ from a fantasy perspective; I had just looked at it from "real" football perspective. But I'll tell you this: I had Ocho Blowhard in a keeper league about three years back, and I traded his ass as part of a two-for-two deal. The WR I got in return in that deal was Housh, and I'm MUCH happier with him than I would have been with Johnson.

Sure, CJ might have one or two weeks a yar when he can pracically win you the week by himself. But he'll also have three or four where he can lose you the week because he doesn't produce, and several others where you sit there and say to yourself "geez, I coulda gotten numbers this good out of Michael Jenkins".

And I'm not talking about having an off week or two, I'm talking about a guy who's really spotty in production from week to week. As an owner, I'd rather have the guy in there each week that I know I can rely on for half a dozen catches, 80 yds or so and quite possibly a TD rather than one who might get me 240 and three TDs one week, then average 40 yds and not see the end zone for the next for or five weeks.
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rubberduck71
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2008, 03:52:01 PM »
Quote from: psychocat on April 11, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
I think the real problem here is that we look at consistency two different ways. You look at it over the space of a season, and say "well, his overall numbers this year were about the same as they were last year, so he's consistent."

I tend to look for consistency within the season, and I'm not real fond of guys who have 1400 yd, 6 TD seasons...but get about half the yardagage and all of the TDs in four out of the 16 weeks.

Dobber talked about CJ from a fantasy perspective; I had just looked at it from "real" football perspective. But I'll tell you this: I had Ocho Blowhard in a keeper league about three years back, and I traded his ass as part of a two-for-two deal. The WR I got in return in that deal was Housh, and I'm MUCH happier with him than I would have been with Johnson.

Sure, CJ might have one or two weeks a yar when he can pracically win you the week by himself. But he'll also have three or four where he can lose you the week because he doesn't produce, and several others where you sit there and say to yourself "geez, I coulda gotten numbers this good out of Michael Jenkins".

And I'm not talking about having an off week or two, I'm talking about a guy who's really spotty in production from week to week. As an owner, I'd rather have the guy in there each week that I know I can rely on for half a dozen catches, 80 yds or so and quite possibly a TD rather than one who might get me 240 and three TDs one week, then average 40 yds and not see the end zone for the next for or five weeks.

Agree.  I depended on CJ as WR1 last yr in one league & it burned me most of the season, especially in the playoffs.
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